This is a guest blog post by Danny Proudfoot, a UK member of the Herbwifery Forum. He wrote this story for the UK blog party on bitters. Please make sure you read the comments as well as the posting.
There is some disagreement over the order of kidney cleanses and liver cleanses, like which should go first, I guess it depends which formula you do, but as long as you do them sometime, that’s cool. Bowel and parasite cleansing 100pct must come first though, so that toxins can be quickly removed and not redistributed.
I had recently cleaned the digestive tract and got rid of some of the parasites that been driving me mad. Now that my detox pathways had been freed up a little…. I was free to try another kidney cleanse. I used the Andreas Moritz kidney cleanse formula, from Presentmoment.com, which I can highly recommend. This is collection of herbs which you make into a tea and drink over the course of the day, everyday for 30 days. Tastes very bitter to some people. Not to me though….tastes nice……which is another example of my taste buds telling me what I should and should not be eating & drinking. My mum did the same kidney cleanse and complained bitterly (ha!) that the taste was super nasty, very bitter indeed. I was like, what…tastes nice! My taste buds like these herbs….which means my body wants/needs them. I have since learnt to trust my senses, if I crave something, I have it, but I use my new found knowledge to satisfy the crave with the right kinda food. I use my head and don’t eat junk.
I was getting up in the night 2-3 times for a pee, so this was good reason to do did a kidney cleanse. Also, apparently, lower back problems can be caused by kidney troubles? Or so I read anyway. I had the mother of all back problems so worth trying this again. Tiny crystals accumulate inside the kidneys and the tubes that go to the bladder and when fluid goes through the tubes this causes lower back pain….apparently. Its all weird stuff this eh! Kidneys and lower back problems….never in a million years would I think that might be a cause of my back pain.
If the Liver is congested, which I knew mine was, this leads to sand, grease and stones accumulating in the kidney and/or urinary bladder. The kidneys are delicate, blood-filtering organs that congest easily due to dehydration, poor diet, weak digestion, stress and wild crazy partying late into the night! Most of the kidneys stones are too small to be detected using modern x-rays and whatnot. The herbs dissolve any accumulated gunk. Andreas Moritz kidney herbs are: Marjoram, Cat’s Claw, Comfrey root, Fennel seeds, Chicory herb, Uva Ursi, Hydrangea root, Gravel root, Marshmallow root, golden herb. Soak 2 table spoons of this herb mixture overnight, bring to the boil in the morning and sip 6-8 times throughout the day, always 1 hour away from food. Simple.
As a general rule, if you have a reaction to a herb, that means its working. That means there are toxins in there somewhere and that herb/formula got a bit out. Toxins always hurt coming out, which is why it’s important to try and control the flow of toxins coming out…too many and life gets difficult again.
The first day I started the kidney cleanse I had a blinding headache, ditto day two. As a rule I only get headaches when I detox…so I know when I cleanse and I get a headache that toxins are coming out Big-Time-Charlie and that the herbs are working. A good signal to know that….that’s a Top-Tip! Luckily this is a herbal tea so I just reduced the amount of tea I drank each day until I had no headache and then gradually increased the dose over the 30 days.
After a couple more days my ankles suddenly inflated like I was wearing 8 pears of socks, they where stiff, swollen and hurt. What the funk is going on here?
Well, it turns out that the kidneys control the fluid in the body, blood pressure, produces urine and regulates lots of bits and bobs in there in relation to fluids. This swelling of the ankles is called Oedema and old ladies get it because their kidneys are full of crystals and don’t work very well anymore. It was most starling to have this happen and I did think hard about stopping the herbs because it was fairly unpleasant….but…this is yet another signal that I was right to try a kidney cleanse in the first place…. that the herbs where working ….. that there were toxins(crystals) in there that needed dissolving…..so I stuck it out. Oedema lasted about 10 days.
Had I NOT known what was going on, I would have 100pct stopped the cleanse and discarded it as “does not suit me.”
Had a doctor given me these herbs and had I blindly taken them and had these strange symptoms I would have bitterly complained to the Doctor, told him he was a fool for giving me stuff that introduced new nasty symptoms. Probably would have reported him or something. Funny old world eh! But no doctor gave them to me, I was responsible for my health now, there was no one to blame but myself anymore. Which is why I read and researched so much, so I could make educated choices about my health. Now that I did understand, I embraced the hassles as proof that I was on the right track and hoped that by coping with the side effects, that in the end, I would be better off than when I started.
Over the 30 days on the cleanse, I had a multitude of spots and pimples, some heartburn. Strange rashes on my ankles, arms, torso, very smelly urine and again pretty off-world BM’s. Again all these are signals of detoxing happening, especially the dark smelly urine. Life was tricky and unpleasant….but my life was already tricky and unpleasant…so it was no change from normal …but I had the knowledge, or hope, that by the end I would be better.
Oh I almost forgot….The chief reason for doing this kidney cleanse in the first place was because of my long term major lower back problems…..and for the duration of the 30 days my lower back hurt like hell, some days worse than others, but everyday was full of back pain…punch in the kidneys dull throb pain, right inside un-itchable kinda pain….which again was no real change from normal….but it was defo worse. Maybe I’m over-blowing the hassles to you….it was manageable ok….tricky, painful, annoying….but manageable…. for the last 5 years every day I had been managing things, I was a pro at managing pain…………so this was yet more pain to manage.
So, all in all another pretty eventful cleanse. Obviously my kidneys where congested with something and I probably needed to do more, because the hassles continued for the full duration of 30 days. After the cleanse had finished the extra symptoms disappeared and fantastically my lower back was better. Hooray!!! Not cured. Not great….but better…quite a lot better too…..maybe 30pct better than it was before….and when you have been told, “tough luck”, “it’s the dust mites” and “learn to live with the pain for the rest of my life”…….that 30pct betterness, that 30 days of unpleasantness…..all that hassle was massively worth it….I was overjoyed-happy….jumping around the room happy…..shouting from the top of the roof happy.
Stupid doctors……telling me rubbish that I would never get better again, never be able to pick up and lift up me own kids again……yeah yeah yeah…..i know I have an “issue” with doctors…..but screw ‘em! They got it wrong. I was getting better.
Danny Proudfoot
8 comments:
A few thoughts:
In regards to kidneys and lower back pain, it's simple logistics: the kidneys are located in the lower and back part of the torso and if they hurt, that's where you feel it, and people unfamiliar with this are more likely to immediately think back pain as opposed to kindey pain. When people first start to feel kidney stones coming on, its not unlikely for them to feel like they've hurt their back, and seek help for that, when really the kidneys are the issue.
Also, if a "kidney cleanse" formula is really bitter tasting, its acting on the liver, whatever its called, because bitters just do that (long elaboration here: www.herbcraft.org/bitters.pdf).
hmm... I hate to be a naysayer, but this:
"As a general rule, if you have a reaction to a herb, that means its working. That means there are toxins in there somewhere and that herb/formula got a bit out. Toxins always hurt coming out, which is why it’s important to try and control the flow of toxins coming out…too many and life gets difficult again. The first day I started the kidney cleanse I had a blinding headache, ditto day two. As a rule I only get headaches when I detox…so I know when I cleanse and I get a headache that toxins are coming out Big-Time-Charlie and that the herbs are working."
is simply incorrect reasoning, and this kind of reasoning has the potential to do harm.
If you ignore or rationalize signs your body is giving you in protest to what's being done to it because you think those signs reinforce a need to purge yourself of toxins (that they're occurring because the toxins are being released), then in what way do you expect the body to communicate that something isn't good? If you were having heart problems, and you started taking hawthorne because you read it was good for the heart, but began to experience blood pressure drops, weakness and arrhythmias, would you continue using it? If you were suffering from severe uterine bleeding and took dong quai because it was good for the female reproductive system and the bleeding got a lot worse, would you continue using it?
I'm fundamentally opposed to the notion of this type of cleansing mindset that equates feeling worse with getting better, and would challenge that before such beliefs are adopted, basic physiology should be understood and considered. Because very often, ~feeling~ worse is equated to ~getting~ worse. And if you feel worse throughout the duration of a protocol, then feel better when you stop, it might be a likelier conclusion that the protocol was an aggravating factor, and the improvement afterwards came from its cessation.
If I had a client present to me this information, I'd request that they cease and desist this protocol *immediately*, especially if they experienced the symptoms you experienced during this cleanse.
If your back problems are coming from disc herniation, spinal stenosis, magnesium deficiency, nerve impingement or physical trauma to the connective tissues of the back, such an approach is not going to be helpful.
Perhaps the info I have here might be helpful: www.herbcraft.org/backpain.html
It is my hope that, even if blunt, you won't take my disdain for this type of approach personally. I just gotta call it as I see it.
Thank you Danny for writing this post.
I did like it when you said you 'trust your taste buts' and would have wished you would have done the same with the cleansing...
Here I want to say THANK YOU to Jim for speaking out of my heart.
I might be wrong but I think the whole detoxifying thing is to harsh on our bodies so I prefer the gentle way of nourishing. All our cells are reproducing them self so if you nourish every new cell you will getting better day by day.
Our kidney cells are renewed in around 4 weeks (I think) so Danny, if you nourish every new cell with nettle or other tonics you might feel well as well... without doctors ;-)
Maybe we could talk about tonics or nourishing herbs in the next blog party?
------Hi Jim. Danny here, I wrote “steak and Kidney pie” which you commented on.
I am not a herbalist. I am someone that uses herbs because I was sick. Very sick indeed. I’m keen to know some more of your thoughts on my experience.
I said : "As a general rule, if you have a reaction to a herb, that means its working. That means there are toxins in there somewhere and that herb/formula got a bit out. Toxins always hurt coming out, which is why it’s important to try and control the flow of toxins coming out…too many and life gets difficult again. The first day I started the kidney cleanse I had a blinding headache, ditto day two. As a rule I only get headaches when I detox…so I know when I cleanse and I get a headache that toxins are coming out Big-Time-Charlie and that the herbs are working."
You said: “is simply incorrect reasoning, and this kind of reasoning has the potential to do harm.”
----Why? Whats incorrect? The bit about reactions to herbs = its working? My taste buds said my body liked these herbs.
Or “As a rule I only get headaches when I detox” – why is it wrong?
You said: “If you ignore or rationalize signs your body is giving you in protest to what's being done to it because you think those signs reinforce a need to purge yourself of toxins (that they're occurring because the toxins are being released), then in what way do you expect the body to communicate that something isn't good?
-----I don’t understand what you said here. Are you saying purging to release toxins is incorrect? Or that if I let the reactions happen, and do not heed them, do not notice them and continue taking the herbs, how am I to know to stop using a herb? I guess maybe you are saying that…..probably. If you do mean that, how could I get better if the release of toxins is so low that I cannot notice them? I did reduce the dose from the start because the side-effects where too much. Reduced until they where manageable. (I was ultra sick at the time of this cleanse. Deaths door sick. Its not like a had a little bit of a bad back, I was effectively a cripple.)
......
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You said “If you were having heart problems, and you started taking hawthorne because you read it was good for the heart, but began to experience blood pressure drops, weakness and arrhythmias, would you continue using it? If you were suffering from severe uterine bleeding and took dong quai because it was good for the female reproductive system and the bleeding got a lot worse, would you continue using it?”
----But that’s totally different. If the blood pressure drops you know to stop hawthorn – hawthorn and blood pressure go hand in hand. The symptoms I had from the Kidney herbs was rashes, pimples, spots, heartburn, oedema and lower back pain. Oedema shows something has been stirred up and that my body is mobilising forces to deal with the problem. All that swelling dilutes the toxins released and helps removal. I didn’t know anything about oedema until I had it back then, so I looked it up, read about and learnt that is what happens when the kidneys get congested. Oedema shows me the herbs are working and ridding my body of some toxins. And if you say that’s a bad thing, I’d like to know why removal of toxins is bad. Or are you saying the speed of the removal is bad if they give me side effects? (I will repeat, I was very sick at the time. But I survived and the herbs helped in getting me better.)
You said “I'm fundamentally opposed to the notion of this type of cleansing mindset that equates feeling worse with getting better, and would challenge that before such beliefs are adopted, basic physiology should be understood and considered. Because very often, ~feeling~ worse is equated to ~getting~ worse.”
-----Ok, but that’s not my experience. I am not a herbalist, I have only treated myself, so you hold the high ground here. I have done a multitude of herbs over the last 3 years, and I disagree with your statement because I got better using herbal cleanses, some of which gave side effects. The vast majority of people that I know in my situation remain wildly unwell but they have not gone the herbal route. I know the vast majority of people that use that herbal formula’s do not get the side effects I got.
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You said: “And if you feel worse throughout the duration of a protocol, then feel better when you stop, it might be a likelier conclusion that the protocol was an aggravating factor, and the improvement afterwards came from its cessation.”
-----That’s just rude and if you think I’m lying about getting better because of those herbs…I’m not sure what to think. Maybe you just can’t believe I got better from something that you believe is “fundamentally wrong”? Fact is – I got better from those herbs.
You said: “If I had a client present to me this information, I'd request that they cease and desist this protocol *immediately*, especially if they experienced the symptoms you experienced during this cleanse.”
---Ok, that I understand. But what do you think now that I have done them and I assure you they did work and they made me better. I have since done that formula of herbs 4 other times (over 3 years), each for 20-30 days and side effects are now zero, and I am fit, healthy and leading a normal life again. (I’m not saying all my ill health was solely cleared up by these herbs…but 100pct they helped.)
You said: “It is my hope that, even if blunt, you won't take my disdain for this type of approach personally. I just gotta call it as I see it.”
----And I echo your words totally. I am only keen up understand why you dislike/disapprove of something that I had so much success with.
Danny
Hi Brigitte. I wish with all my heart that I could have got better quickly, quietly, without reading a book, without making much effort, using single herbs getting zero reactions and zero side effects. I wish I had no pain, no trouble, no tears and I wish I could have delegated my health to my doctors. It didn’t pan out that way and the above story is just one small part of my recovery. Now that i am better i want to learn a bit more about the herbs that cured me.
Danny
danny... it would really take so long to hash this out point by point, and alas, I can't allot the time to respond to each point you make. But, I will offer that I think these are questions that benefit from considering...
What exactly are the toxins you're purging out? How, physiologically, are those toxins purged? Why do "toxins always hurt coming out" (and since you release toxins every time you pee, sweat or poop, should this hurt?) That statement qualifies as "simply incorrect".
If you only get headaches when you detox, is it implausible that the detox method could be causing them?
Where did you learn that "Oedema shows something has been stirred up and that my body is mobilising forces to deal with the problem. All that swelling dilutes the toxins released and helps removal... Oedema shows me the herbs are working and ridding my body of some toxins. "
Some very general info on edema from the Mayo clinic:
www.mayoclinic.com/health/edema/DS01035/DSECTION=causes
Your info on edema is inaccurate. That's not to say that a ~part~ of what swelling does is what you say, but its only a part, and the edema you describe in your post sounds more akin to the type that arises from kidney stress. You can disagree, fine, but disagree from a place of extensive research on possible causes of edema.
As to whether my dislike of this approach dictates my negative response, I'll say flatly, no. My dislike of this approach is because it promotes lies. An example:
If I'm not mistaken, I believe Andreas Moritz's book on cleansing recommends a liver cleanse using olive oil and grapefruit juice to expel "stones". But this type of "cleanse" actually ~creates~ these "stones" when the bile produced by the liver saponifies the olive oil and creates, basically, soap, that is then passed and claimed to be "stones". Here's an analysis of such "stones" published in the Lancet:
http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=413022
Now, I've repeatedly seen advocates of these types of "cleanses" simply deny that this is true. To my knowledge, none of them are willing
to pay to have their "stones" analyzed to prove it.
I won't (and didn't) dispute that you got better, though I do think there's a string likelihood that some of the unpleasantries you experienced could have been caused by aggravation of an underlying condition, and not resolution of it. And there are just flat out factual errors in the info you presented that need to be pointed out, when they are presented in an educational manner.
Some of this argument rests on whether one accepts herbalism as being complementary or alternative medicine. In either case a qualified medical practitioner (either Western Orthodox or Alternative) should be consulted in order to obtain a diagnosis. It is up to the individual to decide whether to follow the practitioners advice, but it is important to know the nature and cause of ones condition. The main reason that people turn to 'natural' remedies is because of possible side effects from allotropic drugs. Accepting side effects resulting from taking natural remedies seems to be at odds with this. The notion that pain should be experienced if a treatment is working probably originates from what complementary therapists call a 'Healing Crisis', where a condition may worsen before it improves. This would not be expected to last for more than a day or so and any responsible practitioner would certainly stop or change the treatment if ongoing side effects were reported.
Mark Gallon FdSc(Complementary Therapies)
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